Talk:How to address captains

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As the stickler for etiquette, propriety, decorousness and formality that I am, I just want to point out the solecisms in this thread.

I do hereby presume that the writer of this article is not subject for infallacy, and that the article's content is not set in stone.

Here goes:

While the use of Mister is correct, i would like to point out that the title of Master is used (as a title, as opposed to style) for a Scottish Master/Mistress (usually the elder son/daughter and thus heir to a Scottish Lordship of Parliament). As a mere style (i.e. being used by servants) Master is usually applied to youth. Generally young boys who are not old enough to be considered gentlemen.

I also want to point out that Mister and Esquire is practically the same thing. When referring to someone you use either the prefix Mr, or the suffix Esquire. The rules when to use the latter is not really set out. It is usually reserved for gentlemen who have no higher title (eg. knighthood, peerage, courtesy title etc.) and is used only in official and formal situations. For instance, I recently received a letter by mail that read Firstname Surname, Esq. I also want to add that a comma after the surname and before Esquire is common practice.

The only how to address in this article that is correct according to real-life decorum, is the style of knights (i.e. Sir Firstname Surname; NEVER Sir Surname).

When it comes to peers, things get a little more complicated. All peers (except dukes) are referred to as Lord X or Lady X. Nelson, for instance, would NEVER be referred to as Viscount Horatio Nelson, and only rarely as Viscount Nelson (usually when specifying what peerage he held). He would merely be Lord Nelson. NEVER Lord Horatio Nelson. The reason why he is Lord Surname is because Nelson is his chosen title. Edward Pellew, 1st Viscount Exmouth, for instance, chose a placename rather than his surname for his title, and thus he is referred to as Lord Exmount, NOT Lord Pellew, Viscount Pellew, Viscount Lord Exmouth or any of the sort.

Barons are almost ALWAYS referred to as Lords (eg. The Lord Jones). The reason for this is complicated, it may have to do that Barons are not a rank of peerage in Scotland, but rather the equivelant is Lords of Parliament.

Therefore, presuming that the list is correct in assuming that all peers in this society must use their surname and are not allowed a place name, the list should rather read:

VISCOUNT

The Viscount Barclay Lord Barclay Captain Barclay or Captain the Viscount Barclay(Captain Lord Barclay sounds strange, and I am quite confident that it is never used)

BARON

The Lord (Baron) Barclay Lord Barclay Captain Barclay or Captain the Lord Barclay

What really boggles my mind is this paragraph:


Duke Lord Surname Lord Hornblower Captain the Lord Hornblower Sea Lord Emeritus Lord Surname Lord Blake Captain the Lord Blake Sea Lord Lord Surname Lord Fletcher Captain the Lord Fletcher

It makes no sense what so ever. Firstly, a duke is NEVER referred to as Lord Surname. While they are lords, they are not styled as such (they are much grander). They are styled Your Grace, rather than Your Lordship.

Secondly, dukedoms ALWAYS include of in the title. So, it would be something along the lines of His Grace the Duke of Fletcher (this is why simply using the surname is peculiar). Real life dukes such as that of Hamilton and that of Montagu are different cases. Whilst it is also their surnames, it is furthermore placenames.

Thirdly, why the three highest ranks would simply be Lords is odd, since lords would suggest barons.

This is just some constructive critique, alternatively nit-picking :P

Otherwise, a good job creating this Wiki! Percy palliser 21:15, 19 October 2008 (BST)

Changes in addressing Captains

This is a difficult one. The ranks were created at the very start of the squadron. At the time we knew a lot less than we do now.

I think we're stuck with the current rank structure but we certainly can change the way we address captains of that rank. By all means update the article to contact the more correct information.

Joseph Fletcher 15:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)